dewwallearms

 

GENEALOGY OF THE TIPPERARY WALLERS

Why this site was written

When this page was first written in July 2008,  George Edward de Warrenne Waller (Born Jan' 2008) was the latest Tipperary Waller to be born in Ireland.

The author of this website wrote it for George's use when he is older. In the meanwhile, perhaps it might interest other Tipperary Wallers. The family lived in the Royston, Herts, area of Eastern England until Lieutenant Richard Waller acquired property in County Tipperary, Ireland, after the Cromwellian Conquest, and moved there in 1649. More recently the family has taken to adding the family name de Warrenne as a result of a Grant of Arms (shown below) in 1572, made to a confirmed ancestor William Warren Waller of Bassingbourn, Cambs, later Ashwell, Herts.

Arms on Grant

These arms  are a variant of those of the de Warrenne family, whose ancestors came over with William The Conqueror. I thought it would amuse if a genealogy linking the Tipperary Wallers to the de Warrennes could be traced back as far as plausible records could be found.

The worth of this genealogy

This genealogy is intended to show our direct male line of descent. It also seeks to explore the early origins of the families that are of interest in showing the common origins of many of the "landed" families of Europe. It is complementary with Hardress Waller's Origins website but differs in important respects which are examined in the pages of notes ( please see the menu above). In particular, I cannot substantiate the purported descent from 34x John de Warren , last (7th/ 8th, Earl of Surrey 1st Earl of Strathearn 1286. Born 1286. Died 1347. Please see Note 2.3 in page 2. Final Uncertainties.html

I have produced a Family Tree, which I believe is as accurate as possible in view of the long time-span. It shows George's direct male line of descent back for some 1650 years (approximately 55 generations). Most modern Europeans share ancestors if you go back this many generations. Thus any genealogy traced back this far is unique only in that it is possible to perform such a trace. Many links in the tree need further examination and my conclusions must be tentative pending more substantiation. The four most speculative are:


A.That the Wallers of the Royston, Herts, area are descended from the Warrens of Poynton, Cheshire; please see Note 3 Options covering the time of the missing link.html


B.That the Warrens of Poynton are descended from the family of the De Warrenne Earls of Surrey; please see Note 2.3 in page 2. FINAL UNCERTAINTIES.html

C.That Rodolf I (the earliest ancestor of the De Warrennes that most genealogists can trace ) was a son of Hugh (Hugues) Aimerie Thouars de Coutances who was probably a Bishop of Coutances in what is now Normandy. The lists of Bishops have gaps between the city's destruction by the Norse and the rebuilding of the cathedral in ~ 1025, during this gap the Bishops were based in Rouen; please see Note 2.2 in page 2. FINAL UNCERTAINTIES.html


D.That the Vicomtes de Thouars are descended from 17 Bouchard de Fezensac has been questioned. However, Bava (mother of the 1st Vicomte de Thouars was heiress to the city of Thouars from her father. Thouars in Aquitaine had been destroyed by Pepin King of France in 762. It seems not unreasonable to assume that she rebuilt the city with the help of her son Geoffrey of Orleans and passed it to him, so that he became the 1st Vicomte of Thouars.


E.That 8 Charibert, a nobleman from Hesbaye was an illegitimate son of 7 (Ch)lot(h)ar I King of the Soissons Franks; please see Note 2.1 in page 2. FINAL UNCERTAINTIES.html

A request

I would very much like to hear from anybody who may be interested in the genealogy of any of the families covered in this website, particularly in the doubtful links listed above. Please email Ted Waller on atqs65@dsl.pipex.com

The construction and layout

I started going back and forward, in time, from internet pages that lead to Warrens or De Warrennes. I used "East Cheshire Past and Present"( by J.P. Earwaker, London, 1877, CRO, Knutsford) to substantiate some important descents. I also used several genealogy sites and books. There were differences between family trees and implausibilities (improbable ages at which children were born, life spans etc.). These seemed to be due to obvious confusions such as missed generations due to father and son of same forename or falsely inserted or omitted generations due to lack of accurate dates and variations in the languages used (E.G. Latin, Frankish, French). There were also some assumptions of descent based more on snobbery than probability. The Tree is divided into the major families from which I believe there is some probability that we may descend. These are colour coded throughout the site as follows:

Romans, Early Franks (not in direct line) or Dukes of Moselle.

De Gatinais, Later Angevins or Plantagenets.

Early Angevins.

Dukes of Alsace.

Carolingians and De Courcy line.

Robertians and Capets.

Norse.

Our Direct Line.

Our Earliest Ancestors

Like most Western Europeans we are descended from a mixture of The Gauls (and other Celts), The Romans, The Franks, The Saxons and The Norse (E.g. The Northmen, the Vikings and others from Denmark and Scandinavia)

The Gauls

Because our traceable direct line male ancestors where all Aristocratic Franks and Norse, our Gaulish ancestry will be confined to that of their wives. I have not yet traced any and will come back to this task later.

The Romans

I have found. in a female line, Tonantius Ferreolus, Praetorian Prefect of Gaul from 451, who gave rise to the Dukes of Moselle progenitors of many Royal Lines (these Dukes were like Roman Generals "Dux" who were originally responsible for defending a given area against Barbarian invaders. They were often of Frankish Ancestry). Tonantius was also an ancestor of a maternal line to Charlemagne.

The Salian Franks

A subgroup of the early Franks, who originally had been living north of the limes, in the coastal area above the Rhine in the northern Netherlands. From the 3rd century onwards the Salian Franks appear in the historical records as warlike Germanic people and pirates, and as "Laeti" (allies of the Romans). They first crossed the Rhine during the Roman upheavals and subsequent Germanic breakthrough in 260 AD.
In about 286 Carausius was put in charge of defending the coasts of the Straits of Dover against Saxon and Frankish pirates. Piracy ceased to be the main money earner of the Salians when the Saxons drove them south towards the southern Netherlands and Belgium. When peace had returned, the Roman Emperor Constantius I Chlorus in 297 AD allowed the Salians to settle with the Batavians, where they soon came to dominate the Batavian island (the land between the Waal and Old Rhine surrounding Nijmegen) in the Rhine delta. The Salians received protection from the Romans and in return were recruited by Constantius Gallus, together with the other inhabitants of the Batavian Isle. However, this did not prevent the onslaught into the Empire of the Germanic tribes to the north especially by the Chamavi. The subsequent "insolent" settlement of the Salians within Roman territory in Toxandria (between the Meuse and the Scheldt rivers in the Netherlands and Belgium) was ejected by the future Roman Emperor Julian the Apostate who attacked them. The Salians surrendered to him in 358 AD accepting Roman terms. They were the first Germanic tribe from beyond the limes. that was allowed to settle permanently on Roman land.
The Merovingian kings, responsible for most of the Barbarian Conquest of Gaul, were of Salian stock. They are our ancestors in our Direct Male Line (shown in red) via Hugh (Hugues) Aimerie Thouars de Coutances. Our earliest direct male line traceable ancestor on this (our "Frankish Line") that I can find, is 1 Flavius Richomeres (Richomer),(a Salian Frankish "General" who came to prominence as the Comes domesticorum of Emperors Gratian and Valentinian II).   We descend from Richomer, via the Merovingian Chlot(h)ar I King of the Soissons Franks b ~497, Robert Count of Haspengau /Hesbaye b ~689, Hugh (Hugues) Aimerie Thouars de Coutances, and 27 William de Warenne, 1st Earl of Surrey a Franco-Norman aristocrat (who was at the Battle of Hastings).  I have also explored the notable families that share ancestors with us. These all spring from two progenitor lines; the Roman Senators in Gaul and the Frankish "Generals" in the Roman Army. The former gave rise to the Dukes of Moselle and their descendants; the Carolingians, in one line and the Dukes of Alsace in the other. The dukes of Moselle gave rise to the early Angevin Counts one of whom married a Carolingian. When this line ended in an heiress she married a De Gatinais, who thereby became the later Angevin Counts. The De Gatinais, Robertians/Capets and our Direct Line, The Viscounts of Thouars all spring from the Early Frankish Counts of Hesbaye/Haspengau.

I have shown how they link in to us in the chart.



The saxons

Enter our Ancestry via various Saxon or Anglo-Saxon women who married our Frankish/Norse Ancestors (e.g. Eadgifu the daughter of King Edward the Elder of Wessex and Kent, who married Charles III The Simple, King of France).

The Norse

The Vikings and others from Denmark and Scandinavia were ancestors of William, 1st Earl of Surrey  who was descended from the Danish and Swedish Kings either via his grandmother Beatrice de Vascoeuil who was a great great granddaughter of Herfast I de Crepon, (also known as "The  Dane") a descendent of the Danish Kings. Beatrice was also descended from the Swedish Kings via Herfast II's wife Gunnhild Olafsdottir . (Herfast II was also an ancestor of William The Conqueror). William de Warrenne was additionally descended from a junior branch of the Carolingians via his mother Emma de St Martin who was probably a daughter of Walter de St Martin de Varenne. These Carolingians also gave rise to the De Courcy family .

Medieval and Later Ancestors

It is often claimed that our ancestors include Hamelin Plantagenet, who married Isabel, heiress of the Earls de Warrenne and gave rise to the Plantagenet de Warrenne Earls de Warrenne. I do not believe that this line is in our descent, it is shown for interest. (please see Uncertainties para 2.3.). The de Warrennes, have been traced back to their Danish (Northmen). and Frankish forbears. I show the results of my examination of the link between the de Warrennes and the Warrens of Poynton, Cheshire, (who are supposed to descend from the de Warrennes please see Uncertainties para 2.3 ). I show also the results of some further research that looked into the so called "Missing Link" between these Warrens, and the Warren alias Wallers and Wallers originating in Cambridgeshire and Hertfordshire [ who gave rise to my family; the Irish/Tipperary (de Warrenne) Wallers] please see Options for the "Missing Link"  .

The Irish (Tipperary) Wallers descend from Richard Waller, Lieutenant in Cromwell's Army in Ireland for part of the Civil War of 1642-1646.

Connections between all the lines we are descended from.

This diagram shows how many of the lines from which we descend link up. This emphasises how a few powerful individuals strengthened their line by marrying into the lines from other powerful individuals so that their distant descendants came to retain relics of their ancestor's powers/positions (e.g. the "Landed Gentry").

The De Warrennes are in the ancestry of 2 notable families

1. THE FITZALANS (later Dukes of Norfolk)

32x William de Warren 1260-1286
m Joan de Vere of Oxford

dau 33x Alice de Warren 1277-1338
m Edmund FitzAlan 9th Earl of Arundel and 9th Earl of Surrey executed by Edward III

their heirs inherited when her brother 33x John de Warren last (7th/ 8th) Earl of Surrey died in 1347 without legitimate issue.
>>>>>>> FITZALAN EARLS OF ARUNDEL

 2. OLIVER CROMWELL

39 Sir Lawrence Warren     
~ 1445-1475, Poynton, Cheshire
m Isabel Legh  of  Adlington, Cheshire

3rd son 40cx Richard Warren
b ~ 1470 Claybury, Essex

son    
41cx Sir Ralph Warren, Lord Mayor of London
b 1495 Claybury, Essex
d 1553
a nephew of Anthony Warren
b ~1467 in Claybury, Essex,
d ~1557 in Bassingbourn, aged 90?
m Margery
(see table Z in Options for the "Missing Link" )

dau of 41cx
42cx Joan Warren ~ 1524-1584 d All Saints Church, Huntingdon.
m Sir Henry Cromwell 1562 in Godmanchester, Huntingdon. Henry's father Sir Richard Williams alias Cromwell was the son of one Morgan Williams, a Welshman who was a brewer at Putney. But through his mother he was a nephew of Thomas Cromwell, Earl of Essex, the architect of the dissolution, whose service he entered and whose name he took. Upon the dissolution of the monasteries "he obtained all the lands, in Huntingdonshire, belonging to any religious house in that county" (in particular Ramsey Abbey).

son

43cx Robert Cromwell
~ 1560-1617 of Hinchingbrooke, Huntingdon
m Elizabeth Stewart of Ely.

son

44cx OLIVER CROMWELL  15 Apr 1599-3 Sep 1658

DE WARRENNE HOLDINGS IN THE DOMESDAY BOOK.

Warenne, William de - From (Castle) Varenne, near Bellencombre, Seine-Inf. fought with William I at Hastings. Lord of the Sussex rape of Lewes, with castle there;
created Earl of Surrey, 1088; died same year from an arrow.
Holdings in 13 counties all over the country. In modern money his holdings would be worth £57 billion, a record in Britain during the last millennium.

DE WARRENNE AT HASTINGS

List below is of those known for certain to have been with
William the Bastard when he fought at Hastings:

  1. Eustace, Count of Boulogne
  2. William, afterwards 3rd Count of Evreux
  3. Geoffrey of Mortagne, afterwards Count of Perche
  4. William FitzOsbern, afterwards Earl of Hereford
  5. Aimery, vicomte of Thouars (possibly related to 10)
  6. Hugh de Montfort, seigneur of Montfort-sur-Risle
  7. Walter Giffard, seigneur of Longueville
  8. Ralph de Toeni, seigneur of Conches
  9. Hugh de Grandmesnil, seigneur of Grandmesnil
  10. William de Warenne, afterwards Earl of Surrey
  11. William Malet, seigneur of Graville
  12. Eudes, Bishop of Bayeux, afterwards Earl of Kent
  13. Turstin FitzRou
  14. Engenulf de Laigle, seigneur of Laigle
  15. Geoffrey de Mowbray, Bishop of Coutances
  16. Robert, Count of Mortain, afterwards Earl of Cornwall
  17. Wadard
  18. Vital
  19. Goubert d'Auffay, seigneur of Auffay
  20. Robert de Beaumont, afterwards Count of Meulan and Earl of Leicester
  21.  
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The Roman Empire in 400AD click on map to enlarge


RomanEmpire400

Entities governed by our ancestors


Empire481